KSO Sizing differences between colors? (Black maybe tight)

My husband has had a rash of bad luck with his Taupe/green KSOs. He's had 2 defective pairs in under a month. The first pair had the seams at the top of the ankle come apart and his second pair had the seams come apart along the vertical seam on top of his foot (wear the mesh meets the fabric). It's sad.  :(

Fortunately, Whole Earth Provisions has been wonderful. :) They've made the exchanges with no problems and are shipping in another pair of KSOs for him. He wears 43s in KSOs and the taupe/green fit over his high arches feet. He tried a 43 black KSO and couldn't get his foot in at all. Is there a difference in sizes between colors?  ???
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Comments

  • I have the taupe/clay, and a pair of black KSO's.  I've noticed that my taupe/clay KSO's fit perfect, while my pair of black KSO's fit tighter, as if I need to go one size up...hmmmmm...

    I wear size M47...
  • My husband sized up in the black KSOs from a 43 to a 44 and it didn't work out. His pinky toe kept popping out of the pocket.

    I'm so glad there's a VFF dealer in town so we can try them on. They're fairly tricky to fit, but worth it.

    My size 39 KSOs in clay/taupe and grey/fuschia fit the same. I didn't notice a sizing difference, I haven't tried the black though because they didn't have any in my size.
  • I doubt there is any difference in sizing between colors (it certainly wouldn't be intentional, anyway).  Having said that, I know that in my experience with buying any clothing or footwear that you almost always have to try things on to be assured that the same size you always wear fits you like it normally would.  I can't tell you how many times I've known my jeans size and then bought a new pair that I didn't try on only to find that it fit entirely wrong/different and then held it up to the prior size and been able to tell a difference in size.

    I guess everything has a certain tolerance point for manufacturing (though I'd guess the soles of all VFFs are consistent across pairs since that is rubber fitting a mold and not fabric).  So it's ultimately hard to say here ... if the VFF fits, wear it, right?

    Hopefully your husband's next pair will work better!
  • I have much the same problem with my new black KSO's. I measured (about 40+ times) and ordered per the chart on their site. I can barely get them on my tall feet. Once on, the strap is almost extended to the point that it won't hold. My didgets are a little folded up too. I ordered the next size up to see if they fit better. If they do, the smaller ones are going back (at my expense). At the very least, I'll know what size KSOs I wear.
  • Good luck with sizing up. If that doesn't work, the grey/palm KSOs fit larger/better than the black ksos.

    Gotta love the simpsons.
  • My black 44's are as tight as can be, both the old and new pairs. The 45 grey/lime/taupe are as loose as can be. the only way i'll be able to find out is if I order the grey ones in 44 which I probably won't do. It just seems like there is a huge difference between 44 and 45.
  • Honestly Kevin, I think there is an unintentional size difference between the black ksos and possibly the brown ksos compared to the green/grey ones. I bet the 44 green/grey would fit like a dream. Considering there's 3-4 people noticing the same problem seems a little more than coincidental.  :-\
  • Anyone happen to know if the blue camo KSOs size closer to the black or the grey/palm KSOs. I have a pair of black KSOs in 40 but they are a little tight. I am thinking based upon what others are saying, that I might be better off with the size 40 KSOs that are cut bigger than the blacks.
  • **Update**

    My black size 42 KSO's are going back... they look/feel as if they are about to pop with my FF's (flintstone feet). If I find a pair of grey's I may try them again. Until then, it's back to nekkid feet.  :P
  • Ok - so I think I've figured this thing out (famous last words).

    This morning, I took a good look at my black KSOs and grey KSOs to see if I could spot any differences.

    Lo and behold I spotted a difference at the distance from the curving mesh fabrick to the sole and the thicker/hard fabric strap mechanism.

    What you want to do is look at the Vibram "stamp" on the thick fabric and then find the stitch that runs above it.  Follow that stitch out to where it T's up with a perpendicular-ish stitch.  Then, look to see how much non-mesh fabric is between where the thick fabric ends and the mesh fabric begins.  With my black KSOs, there is basically zero of this fabric.  For my grey/green KSOs, there is a good 7/16 of an inch of fabric between mesh and hard fabric.  These are M43s, check these photos:
    img0583y.jpg
    img0584rdu.jpg

    Now, it'd be hardly scientific to extrapolate from my case to all cases, SO if you have a pair of KSOs, take a side photo and measure this distance.  Upload the photo to imageshack.us (free, simple, no registration) and then post the photo here.  All colors would be helpful -- even (or especially) others with black or grey KSOs.

    Let's see if we can get specific on this!
  • I will try to do my black KSO's later especially as mine have a different strap its narrower and doesnt have the stiched end sections where u can trim it.
  • I think you're on to something Justin. It seems to be a quality control issue of sorts. I've been looking at KSOs pics onlline and there are the variations on the black KSOs, but not really on the green/grey ones. Also it seems that the blue camo ksos are missing that little bit of material that would probaby make them as snug as the black ksos. Here are some pics where you can see the difference in material.

    KSOs in Japan http://item.rakuten.co.jp/vic2rak/c/0000001039/ are only $140 dollars, seems to be cheaper than 90 poumds.

    Black KSO from Japan

    144-27833-i02.jpg

    img55915484.jpg

    Green KSO from Japan

    144-27813-i02.jpg

    Black KSOs from REI

    http://www.rei.com/product/783340?siteId=cjIsd2x-it3792&URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rei.com%2Fproduct%2F783340&PID=3068689&AID=10456937&cm_mmc=CJ-_-Aff-_-3068689-_-10456937

    Blue camos

    FF%20KSO%20camo.JPG
  • on 1250868781:

    Ok - so I think I've figured this thing out (famous last words).

    This morning, I took a good look at my black KSOs and grey KSOs to see if I could spot any differences.

    Lo and behold I spotted a difference at the distance from the curving mesh fabrick to the sole and the thicker/hard fabric strap mechanism.

    What you want to do is look at the Vibram "stamp" on the thick fabric and then find the stitch that runs above it.  Follow that stitch out to where it T's up with a perpendicular-ish stitch.  Then, look to see how much non-mesh fabric is between where the thick fabric ends and the mesh fabric begins.  With my black KSOs, there is basically zero of this fabric.  For my grey/green KSOs, there is a good 7/16 of an inch of fabric between mesh and hard fabric.  These are M43s, Now, it'd be hardly scientific to extrapolate from my case to all cases, SO if you have a pair of KSOs, take a side photo and measure this distance.  Upload the photo to imageshack.us (free, simple, no registration) and then post the photo here.  All colors would be helpful -- even (or especially) others with black or grey KSOs.

    Let's see if we can get specific on this!


    I noticed that the peice that says "Vibram" on it is bigger also. If that's the case, the grey ones should fit me better. If this is indeed a QC issue (different fit for the same size shoes) I may stay away from them all together. I've already dished out about $15.00 in return fees. The folks who have free shipping/returns are usually more expensive so it's a wash.... pay more for free S&R, or pay less and hope they fit.  :-\
  • on 1250881193:

    on 1250868781:

    Ok - so I think I've figured this thing out (famous last words).

    This morning, I took a good look at my black KSOs and grey KSOs to see if I could spot any differences.

    Lo and behold I spotted a difference at the distance from the curving mesh fabrick to the sole and the thicker/hard fabric strap mechanism.

    What you want to do is look at the Vibram "stamp" on the thick fabric and then find the stitch that runs above it.  Follow that stitch out to where it T's up with a perpendicular-ish stitch.  Then, look to see how much non-mesh fabric is between where the thick fabric ends and the mesh fabric begins.  With my black KSOs, there is basically zero of this fabric.  For my grey/green KSOs, there is a good 7/16 of an inch of fabric between mesh and hard fabric.  These are M43s, Now, it'd be hardly scientific to extrapolate from my case to all cases, SO if you have a pair of KSOs, take a side photo and measure this distance.  Upload the photo to imageshack.us (free, simple, no registration) and then post the photo here.  All colors would be helpful -- even (or especially) others with black or grey KSOs.

    Let's see if we can get specific on this!


    I noticed that the peice that says "Vibram" on it is bigger also. If that's the case, the grey ones should fit me better. If this is indeed a QC issue (different fit for the same size shoes) I may stay away from them all together. I've already dished out about $15.00 in return fees. The folks who have free shipping/returns are usually more expensive so it's a wash.... pay more for free S&R, or pay less and hope they fit.  :-\


    The piece that says "Vibram" is the same size on mine.

    What's interesting to note from seeing the Japan black KSOs and grey KSOs and the REI blue camo KSOs is that:

    - greys (so far) seem consistent
    - blues are like blacks
    - blacks are consistent

    So oddly enough, there *is* a control problem across colors but it is consistent within colors (so it seems).

    Keep the images coming.
  • When did the black or blue camo KSO first debut? If they are an "older" color choice than the grey/green maybe the new models have that extra material built in?  ??? It doesn't seem right to be a QC issue if it's consistent among colors although there is variation. I just looked at my grey/fuschia shoes and noted while they both have a little extra material, the right shoe have more than the left..  :-\
  • on 1250893500:

    When did the black or blue camo KSO first debut? If they are an "older" color choice than the grey/green maybe the new models have that extra material built in?  ??? It doesn't seem right to be a QC issue if it's consistent among colors although there is variation. I just looked at my grey/fuschia shoes and noted while they both have a little extra material, the right shoe have more than the left..  :-\


    I think the grey/palm were one of the original color combos -- I think the black ones were, too.  But honestly, I have no idea.

    I think the big takeaway here is that for KSOs (and probably Flows, too), there is a chance of variation from pair to pair, which means that trying on the pair you want to buy, particularly if you have high arches or wide feet, is pretty important.

    OTOH, I must be lucky b/c both my black and grey KSOs which were both *not* tried on fit me well.

    I don't think this is much of an issue for Classics or Sprints b/c there is no coverage fabric involved and the sole is going to be very consistent within the same size.

    Your mileage may vary.
  • The world may never know... lol But, I agree Justin that it only matters for KSOs or Flows, and possibly the upcoming Treks.
  • on 1250868781:

    if you have a pair of KSOs, take a side photo and measure this distance.


    Here's a photo of my size 40 KSOs.

    http://yfrog.com/5kimg1226bj

    The space you're talking about seems to be a little bigger than on your black KSOs and a little smaller than on your gray KSOs.

    Alan
  • on 1250943869:

    on 1250868781:

    if you have a pair of KSOs, take a side photo and measure this distance.


    Here's a photo of my size 40 KSOs.

    http://yfrog.com/5kimg1226bj

    The space you're talking about seems to be a little bigger than on your black KSOs and a little smaller than on your gray KSOs.

    Alan


    Indeed - is it consistent across your two pairs?
  • I have one pair of KSOs, Justin (thinnk of me as KSO-deprived), but the spacing is consistent on both shoes.

    Alan
  • Definitely agree with the argument that the same size is not actually the same size across all colors...

    I own a pair of blue KSO's and now a pair of taupe/grey's (both M40) and the velcro strap length is off by a good inch and a half on the taupe (short and grabs stuff, which means they are now just KO's) vs my blue pair (go just beyong the edge of the bottom strip). Plus, my Sprints, taupe/putty are worthless as the velcro is even SHORTER and covers only HALF of the bottom strip's length and come undone with any significant walking. Unfortunately I can't return those pieces of @#$% as I bought them locally and Vibram doesn't want to help with a return on those either (locally policy states no returns when worn, but Vibram won't take responsibility after the sale for workmanship flaws either, CEO, you listening?). I have a pair of KSO Treks on order and hope to Jeebus that they fit otherwise I will burn down the nearest shoe store in despair! :'(

    Love my KSO's even with their little strap flaws... Sprints.... Steer clear if you own Classics or KSO's already as I'm sure you'll encounter significant issues with the straps as well. Again, hope when the KSO Treks ship those crazy Chinese assembly people get it right and put a size M40 strap on a size 40 shoe (not a W36)! Also, buy from a local shop that HAS a return policy and isn't going to give you crap when you attempt to return them with some blanket 'no returns' policy. Bought my Taupe/grey KSO's at a place 90 miles away just to get a great return policy (which is better than Vibram's!). Shop around!
  • jeff,

    Measuring the total length of the strap, as in, if you open up the velcro and take a ruler and measure from beginning to end of the strap itself (not the nylon band), what are the two lengths?
  • [size=20pt]Beware black KSOs. [/size]

    There are several people who have had problems with tightness, getting them on, etc. If your feet are wide, high arched, or fat, black KSOs may not be for you. If you must have black KSOs try them on in person if possible or through a business with a good return policy. Grey/palm(green) has less problems with fit and maybe the only KSO for you.

    You have been warned.

    P.S. I'm not trying to scare people off of VFFs, KSOs, or black Ksos. I'm just trying to inform them of what could happen with fit.

    'cause knowledge is power!  ;D
  • Reading all this now, I'm super appreciative that i ordered my black KSO's and they came in with a perfect fit.
  • on 1253422005:

    Reading all this now, I'm super appreciative that i ordered my black KSO's and they came in with a perfect fit.


    There are penty of people whose black KSOs fit just fine. It's just the majority of people having problems with fit with their KSOs have black ones. There are definately some variation of sizing of the material uppers of the KSOs in general, especially black.
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